Interesting point about just how negative bussing is. 60203 kids get bussed, King Arts kids get bussed. Lots of non-black 5th ward kids get bussed. What is the impact on those students? Millions of kids nationwide get on a school bus each day. It’s not about bussing anymore. And I would vote no on a school as I did in 2012. For many reas…
Interesting point about just how negative bussing is. 60203 kids get bussed, King Arts kids get bussed. Lots of non-black 5th ward kids get bussed. What is the impact on those students? Millions of kids nationwide get on a school bus each day. It’s not about bussing anymore. And I would vote no on a school as I did in 2012. For many reasons and the top one being that this is just fiscally irresponsible and it is a feel-good move that isn’t even supported by many of the residents in the neighborhood. I also have to say that I think you are wrong about the political climate- if there were a referendum (and people actually went and voted), you would not see overwhelming support for this school. What you see today is overwhelming support for not being labeled publicly a racist or white supremecist. But the voting booth is private and d65 knew this. That’s exactly why they didn’t run the referendum as they should. There continues to be an exodus of teachers and students and the Board will install another CPS Horton cronie. I am grateful for the choices we have in Evanston for excellent schooling outside of d65. I worry about what the effects will be at ETHS- given that there are no advanced classes other than AP (which we already know accepts C-level students who have no business in such courses), are your kids going to be stuck in classes where a good portion of students can’t even read at grade level? I want my kid punching above his weight, not getting sucked down. These are the fears many parents in town have. And this is a D65 problem which they ignore or obfuscate, preferring the PR/“equity” win of a behemoth school we cannot afford over spending concerted effort and funds on bringing the students who need it up to par. That’s actual equity- who cares what building you get there in or what vehicle takes you there. Equity is fake af in this town. If you cared, you would make increasing skills and ability the priority over a “walkable” school. What kid is going to say in 20 years, “Sure, I still can’t read good and I didn’t go to college and my current and future income is negatively impacted, but my grade school was ALMOST leed certified! And I only had to walk a half mile (and cross Green Bay/Emerson in rush hour by myself) to get there!”?
This is why I think it is telling that a discussion of student performance was entirely absent from the District's argument for the school.
It was entirely couched in a warped nostalgia for righting some sort of wrong that Joseph Hill (the first D65 Black Superintendent) oversaw 50 years ago. This nostalgia was evident at the groundbreaking ceremony this week where the Roundtable reported that Evanston Cradle to Career head, Kimberly Holmes-Ross said that "we’ve been watching the Fifth Ward have a slow death for the last few decades."
A "slow death"? Really? The ward is more diverse than ever before and the neighborhood has lots of new businesses and restaurants like Soul and Smoke and Double Clutch. It seems pretty vibrant to me.
As I mentioned in my other post, there is little evidence that eliminating busing in the neighborhood will actually improve educational outcomes. This article from a scholar at Dartmouth about busing in Michigan is an interesting study where they find that there is no statistical relationship between taking the bus to school and academic performance. They do find a statistical relationship between bus access and a decline in chronic absenteeism.
If these results held for Evanston we would expect to see zero impact on performance and higher levels of chronic absenteeism at the new school. Is that worth $30 million dollars taken from the operating budget?
Yeah the gentrification over there is already underway - have you seen all the houses that just got demolished on Emerson?
I think the analysis would be tough, it's not like you'd have a control group of kids that should be bussed but didn't get bussed. It's hard to do analytics on this kind of stuff where to have a control group, you're basically doing a social experiment.
This is why I keep arguing that this is a *political* challenge more than a financial or educational one. The argument to build the school is political and doing this lease certificate to jam it through doesn't help the political cause of convincing the town why it's necessary.
With that said, I do think kids should all be able to walk to school but perhaps I lack enough knowledge about who walks and who doesn't. I live by Lincoln where we all walk and am a little blind to the rest of the town.
At the school board celebration meeting when people spoke about this new school one of the board members compared how they grew up in Michigan and their life was just so bad because they didn’t get to take the bus. And the 8th ward is now the most predominantly black I heard Hortons interviewer confirm on a YouTube just last week
I grew up in Michigan riding the bus and I can tell you that it’s overrated and I couldn’t wait to drive at 16 just so I didn’t have to ride the bus anymore.
If I am not mistaken, desegregation happened under Dr. Coffin, but point taken. Joe Hill didn't think the plan was a wrong needed to be righted. And the 5th ward had a school- King Lab (in the old Foster School). Perhaps the biggest failure was relocating King Lab to Skiles. Kids were bussed in to King Lab- that was the point. When Kimberly Holmes says she sees a slow death, she is referring to the so-called gentrification and diversification of the ward resulting in less and less black owners/residents. You can't have your "own" ward and continue to lament redlining of 60+ years ago if the people that now live in the redlined ward aren't black. That is problematic for some, which is also why the current alderman wants to ensure the boundaries of the ward allow for a majority-minority ward for purely political purposes. Some might call that gerrymandering. If/when the school is built, if it doesn't run out of money and become a mediocre building, if the population is mixed enough, if crime in the area is at acceptble levels, if there aren't major "Haven-esque" behavior problems, then the school will be a draw for families looking for starter/affordable homes to move to. This will encourage neighborhood development and new construction/rehabbing but will displace some current residents. Some will capitalize on it by selling at a profit and moving elsewhere, some must move elsewhere where the living is cheaper. Either way, the ward is not in decline now, nor will it be. We all know what happens in a boom neighborhood (think Bucktown/Wicker Park but tiny); crappy homes make way for new builds and money moves in for the location and amenities of Evanston. The 5th ward is pretty close to NU. Be careful what you wish for. It is already happening in the ward...drive around and see.
Hi Tom - the demolition of the homes on Emerson actually was an anti-gentrification move. I live nearby and have been keeping tabs. A private developer attempted to purchase the property a few years ago and turn it into a nice market rate apartment complex, but local residents fought it and the city council did not approve the purchase. So, who purchased the lot to please the masses? The City of Evanston for 1.6M after it was listed for 1.2M and never sold (but 1.6M was the appraised amount assuming the zoning density sticks -- at a lower zoning density which the surrounding community wants, it was just north of a mil).
The City of Evanston hasn't totally decided what they're going to do with the site, but councilmembers have expressed a desire to turn the site into low income/subsidized/affordable housing. The fire department was using the long vacant buildings for training purposes over the last few months before demolition. The buildings there certainly have been an eyesore for years, so I don't think anybody is sad to see them go, but I was very sad to see huge mature trees get taken out earlier on the property (ironic given how the City of Evanston is trying to impose restrictions on residents taking down trees on private property).
If you look at the census data, that area hasn't seen a huge influx of affluent purchasers but there are definitely small pockets of it and you see some rehabbed homes just north of Emerson on Wesley and the like. But people have been saying for YEARS that the SEE gentrification and the figures don't (yet) support that. With Double Clutch, Soul & Smoke, and a few pockets of development/rehabbed homes, we may see it down the road, but people have been saying that for 20 years. Ironically, maybe a new school will make the area more desirable and lead to buyers with more means. We shall see....But the small property lots and aged (but not historic) housing stock is a high hurdle on many of the blocks. It's not an area developers routinely look at properties to "flip."
Don’t know that I would agree that’s true in the whole ward. Drive around close to Beck Park and you will see lots of new and flipped homes. I see it daily. Look how much the new construction homes at Dodge and Emerson sold for a couple years ago. And the ones on Church and Grey in the last 6 years. It is happening. I moved to the 7th ward in 2010 and spent most of my kids’ youth at Fleetwood and Foster Field. It was walkable for us. I’ve seen the changes, and it’s getting better all the time.
Yes, desegregation of Foster began in the late 60s under Coffin, but white kids were bused in to Foster. Foster closed in 1979 when Hill was superintendent. The closure was due to decline in student numbers. I think Kingsley closed at around the same time. The District sold Foster but held on to Kingsley which they re-opened later.
Interesting point about just how negative bussing is. 60203 kids get bussed, King Arts kids get bussed. Lots of non-black 5th ward kids get bussed. What is the impact on those students? Millions of kids nationwide get on a school bus each day. It’s not about bussing anymore. And I would vote no on a school as I did in 2012. For many reasons and the top one being that this is just fiscally irresponsible and it is a feel-good move that isn’t even supported by many of the residents in the neighborhood. I also have to say that I think you are wrong about the political climate- if there were a referendum (and people actually went and voted), you would not see overwhelming support for this school. What you see today is overwhelming support for not being labeled publicly a racist or white supremecist. But the voting booth is private and d65 knew this. That’s exactly why they didn’t run the referendum as they should. There continues to be an exodus of teachers and students and the Board will install another CPS Horton cronie. I am grateful for the choices we have in Evanston for excellent schooling outside of d65. I worry about what the effects will be at ETHS- given that there are no advanced classes other than AP (which we already know accepts C-level students who have no business in such courses), are your kids going to be stuck in classes where a good portion of students can’t even read at grade level? I want my kid punching above his weight, not getting sucked down. These are the fears many parents in town have. And this is a D65 problem which they ignore or obfuscate, preferring the PR/“equity” win of a behemoth school we cannot afford over spending concerted effort and funds on bringing the students who need it up to par. That’s actual equity- who cares what building you get there in or what vehicle takes you there. Equity is fake af in this town. If you cared, you would make increasing skills and ability the priority over a “walkable” school. What kid is going to say in 20 years, “Sure, I still can’t read good and I didn’t go to college and my current and future income is negatively impacted, but my grade school was ALMOST leed certified! And I only had to walk a half mile (and cross Green Bay/Emerson in rush hour by myself) to get there!”?
This is why I think it is telling that a discussion of student performance was entirely absent from the District's argument for the school.
It was entirely couched in a warped nostalgia for righting some sort of wrong that Joseph Hill (the first D65 Black Superintendent) oversaw 50 years ago. This nostalgia was evident at the groundbreaking ceremony this week where the Roundtable reported that Evanston Cradle to Career head, Kimberly Holmes-Ross said that "we’ve been watching the Fifth Ward have a slow death for the last few decades."
A "slow death"? Really? The ward is more diverse than ever before and the neighborhood has lots of new businesses and restaurants like Soul and Smoke and Double Clutch. It seems pretty vibrant to me.
As I mentioned in my other post, there is little evidence that eliminating busing in the neighborhood will actually improve educational outcomes. This article from a scholar at Dartmouth about busing in Michigan is an interesting study where they find that there is no statistical relationship between taking the bus to school and academic performance. They do find a statistical relationship between bus access and a decline in chronic absenteeism.
If these results held for Evanston we would expect to see zero impact on performance and higher levels of chronic absenteeism at the new school. Is that worth $30 million dollars taken from the operating budget?
https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED622132.pdf
Yeah the gentrification over there is already underway - have you seen all the houses that just got demolished on Emerson?
I think the analysis would be tough, it's not like you'd have a control group of kids that should be bussed but didn't get bussed. It's hard to do analytics on this kind of stuff where to have a control group, you're basically doing a social experiment.
This is why I keep arguing that this is a *political* challenge more than a financial or educational one. The argument to build the school is political and doing this lease certificate to jam it through doesn't help the political cause of convincing the town why it's necessary.
With that said, I do think kids should all be able to walk to school but perhaps I lack enough knowledge about who walks and who doesn't. I live by Lincoln where we all walk and am a little blind to the rest of the town.
At the school board celebration meeting when people spoke about this new school one of the board members compared how they grew up in Michigan and their life was just so bad because they didn’t get to take the bus. And the 8th ward is now the most predominantly black I heard Hortons interviewer confirm on a YouTube just last week
I grew up in Michigan riding the bus and I can tell you that it’s overrated and I couldn’t wait to drive at 16 just so I didn’t have to ride the bus anymore.
If I am not mistaken, desegregation happened under Dr. Coffin, but point taken. Joe Hill didn't think the plan was a wrong needed to be righted. And the 5th ward had a school- King Lab (in the old Foster School). Perhaps the biggest failure was relocating King Lab to Skiles. Kids were bussed in to King Lab- that was the point. When Kimberly Holmes says she sees a slow death, she is referring to the so-called gentrification and diversification of the ward resulting in less and less black owners/residents. You can't have your "own" ward and continue to lament redlining of 60+ years ago if the people that now live in the redlined ward aren't black. That is problematic for some, which is also why the current alderman wants to ensure the boundaries of the ward allow for a majority-minority ward for purely political purposes. Some might call that gerrymandering. If/when the school is built, if it doesn't run out of money and become a mediocre building, if the population is mixed enough, if crime in the area is at acceptble levels, if there aren't major "Haven-esque" behavior problems, then the school will be a draw for families looking for starter/affordable homes to move to. This will encourage neighborhood development and new construction/rehabbing but will displace some current residents. Some will capitalize on it by selling at a profit and moving elsewhere, some must move elsewhere where the living is cheaper. Either way, the ward is not in decline now, nor will it be. We all know what happens in a boom neighborhood (think Bucktown/Wicker Park but tiny); crappy homes make way for new builds and money moves in for the location and amenities of Evanston. The 5th ward is pretty close to NU. Be careful what you wish for. It is already happening in the ward...drive around and see.
I was going to say, there's already a ton of gentrification happening over there. Just check out what's happening on Emerson right now.
Hi Tom - the demolition of the homes on Emerson actually was an anti-gentrification move. I live nearby and have been keeping tabs. A private developer attempted to purchase the property a few years ago and turn it into a nice market rate apartment complex, but local residents fought it and the city council did not approve the purchase. So, who purchased the lot to please the masses? The City of Evanston for 1.6M after it was listed for 1.2M and never sold (but 1.6M was the appraised amount assuming the zoning density sticks -- at a lower zoning density which the surrounding community wants, it was just north of a mil).
The City of Evanston hasn't totally decided what they're going to do with the site, but councilmembers have expressed a desire to turn the site into low income/subsidized/affordable housing. The fire department was using the long vacant buildings for training purposes over the last few months before demolition. The buildings there certainly have been an eyesore for years, so I don't think anybody is sad to see them go, but I was very sad to see huge mature trees get taken out earlier on the property (ironic given how the City of Evanston is trying to impose restrictions on residents taking down trees on private property).
If you look at the census data, that area hasn't seen a huge influx of affluent purchasers but there are definitely small pockets of it and you see some rehabbed homes just north of Emerson on Wesley and the like. But people have been saying for YEARS that the SEE gentrification and the figures don't (yet) support that. With Double Clutch, Soul & Smoke, and a few pockets of development/rehabbed homes, we may see it down the road, but people have been saying that for 20 years. Ironically, maybe a new school will make the area more desirable and lead to buyers with more means. We shall see....But the small property lots and aged (but not historic) housing stock is a high hurdle on many of the blocks. It's not an area developers routinely look at properties to "flip."
Thank you for this correction; I haven’t been following that story as closely as I should have been. Much appreciated comment 🙏
Don’t know that I would agree that’s true in the whole ward. Drive around close to Beck Park and you will see lots of new and flipped homes. I see it daily. Look how much the new construction homes at Dodge and Emerson sold for a couple years ago. And the ones on Church and Grey in the last 6 years. It is happening. I moved to the 7th ward in 2010 and spent most of my kids’ youth at Fleetwood and Foster Field. It was walkable for us. I’ve seen the changes, and it’s getting better all the time.
Yes, desegregation of Foster began in the late 60s under Coffin, but white kids were bused in to Foster. Foster closed in 1979 when Hill was superintendent. The closure was due to decline in student numbers. I think Kingsley closed at around the same time. The District sold Foster but held on to Kingsley which they re-opened later.
Thank you guys for this background!!
I could be wrong about the timing of Kingsley's closing. But it was definitely closed during the 1980s.