The Roundtable article was not a misrepresentation of what Horton said on the July 2020 call announcing reopening plans. I mentioned this on another thread, but he clearly said that "black and brown" students were going to be prioritized. My spouse and I were like, "wow, that's illegal!"
I didn't care about the policy since we were not interested in sending our kids back to school in the midst of the pandemic, but it brought home to me how unprepared the guy was to be superintendent.
On the larger issue of ETHS and "equity" vs "equality", it is pretty clear that the courts are going to knock down these types of initiatives. I'm not saying I endorse that, but anyone paying attention can see that is clearly where the Supreme Court is headed.
You would think the administrators at ETHS and 65 would be smart enough to understand that and develop appropriate ways to deal with that reality and still accomplish equity goals.
It is really not that hard. They just need to get their heads out from under the stifling identity politics clouds that seem to be the only way they understand the world.
This is why private schools exist. Period. There may be some good results that happen with segregating by race, gender, etc. but the law is pretty clear and Evanston taxpayers should not be footing the bill for illegal experiments. It feels like they are desperate for equity gains - the results have been pretty terrible. What does it say about their jobs if they are have been literally tearing down the system for all students to help a portion and it hasn't worked.
Regarding private school I will say last week I was doing some research and a lot of studies seem to now say the private school is not more effective than public school just making a comment
No kidding, I couldn't take AP classes in high school unless I excelled at the non-AP classes. Hell would've frozen over before they'd allow a C student to take an AP class and just bomb the exam.
There's research - from the College Board no less - that taking AP classes and tests have broad benefits for kids, regardless of the score on the test.
But which way is the causation? Do college kids who took AP do better in college *because* they took the AP or because they are more motivated or well-funded, in general?
Good question. The Center for American Progress has a great AP and Race report that addresses that very thing. Here's a quote: "The results
showed that regardless of ethnicity, gender, class rank, or SAT score, students with AP credits earned higher first-semester college grade point averages (GPAs) than their counterparts with similar high school academic characteristics but no AP credit."
Sure, I believe that. But you don’t get the credit unless you do well enough on the exam. AP classes are about earning college credit in high school. Without the credit, you just took an expensive honors plus class. I contend that having a junior college system that allowed kids to dual enroll so they can earn Gen Ed credits while in high school would be even more beneficial. As it stands, ETHS doesn’t offer enough summer school classes where students can expedite getting enough credits to graduate. At a certain level- it is all makeup classes. I work with a recent college grad from Ohio who got her first year done while in high school. She finished her AA and transferred to a 4 year and did it for less than half the cost, in 1/4 less time. That’s the kind of thinking we should be doing in Evanston, where a good percentage of kids go to college, but end up with no degree. It shouldn’t all be AP focused.
Does this kind of negate your whole Demar verse D 65 post? Does it matter if it’s against the law or not? it’s CRT it is illegal its unconstitutional and it’s wrong. but I don’t think Democrats or anyone in evanston can even admit that probably all white people‘s fault
Am I not welcome ? So inclusive and tolerant of all people and views. Sorry I’ll go away I guess. Delete my comment where I called you a legend and all others. You seem to think I’ve made more comments than I have.
As an advocate for people with physical and cognitive disabilities I think segregation of any kind is wrong and what happens when some crazy white administrators or school staff want white only classes. Or any other unintended consequences from this. in America discrimination is a illegal a black only or a class based on race or sexual orientation criteria limiting others is discrimination. most normal Americans stick up against injustices even if it comes from their own political party. Scratch that pre-Covid that’s what America was like
So no one is creating any fake accounts. Just like at round table or Evanston now you can just type in a random name and a random email and it lets you post. That’s sub stacks, round table verifies every email is legit with confirmation email for example or you can’t post. please delete all ‘fake account’ comment posts and I will not comment anymore once that is complete as clearly not welcome here. thanks all the best I think this is a great site. communication does not always come through via text properly sorry it didn’t work out but you need to delete the comment on the previous post and all the other ones now and I will try my best to not comment under the format that substack allows. For example for this post the email was; heresarandomemail@ supersuper.com and it let me post
Gee insert the {well that escalated quickly} meme. CRT went from its not being taught in our schools, it’s all right wing propaganda, to just flat out black only classes
This is very interesting, thank you for sharing this.
This guy's email cracks me up. I like confident bold writing styles like this.
“I speak with some authority as someone who has filed more Title VI and Title IX complaints than any individual in the history of US civil rights enforcement when I suggest that your race-based and sex-based discrimination is legally indefensible and I fully expect the Chicago OCR to rule in my favor, as they have more than 300 times before for violations similar or identical to ETHA’s (sic) sex-based and race-based discrimination”
“The mindset is often ‘We’ll just violate the civil rights of certain un-preferred student groups (whites, Asians, males) unlawfully in the pursuit of social/racial/gender justice for preferred groups (BIPOCs) and we can do some good until/if we get caught and are forced to follow the law.”
I get the impression that a lot of education folks these days are just throwing stuff out there and seeing what sticks and what doesn't stick.
Agreed! ETHS is in quite a bind, it seems. They get a lot of kids entering in 9th grade that are not high school ready --not even close. And what’s coming their way may be even worse in that regard than they can even imagine (given all you’ve written about and more in d65). At the same time, ETHS is out there touting itself as a leader in AP Curriculum and is recognized as increasing BIPOC AP participation in significant ways. And at the same time per a recent Daily Northwestern article 77% of the white student body is taking an AP class and for Black students it’s 20-22% and for Latino it’s 38%. Not great. And, finally, at the same time we’re hearing more and more about grade inflation being at an all time high and rigor being at an all time low at ETHS. So, what’s a school to do if they see all of this; the proverbial writing on the wall? Time to throw spaghetti and see what sticks?
One more note: Title IV & Title IX of the Civil Rights Acts are the focus here and it’s important to state that while intentions may be good in terms of “why” this was/is being done (I believe that many at ETHS want to desperately help BIPOC students and feel great urgency bc nothing they seem to be doing seems to be working in any significant way), there is no “good intentions exception” to the Civil Rights Act. Period, end of story.
The Roundtable article was not a misrepresentation of what Horton said on the July 2020 call announcing reopening plans. I mentioned this on another thread, but he clearly said that "black and brown" students were going to be prioritized. My spouse and I were like, "wow, that's illegal!"
I didn't care about the policy since we were not interested in sending our kids back to school in the midst of the pandemic, but it brought home to me how unprepared the guy was to be superintendent.
On the larger issue of ETHS and "equity" vs "equality", it is pretty clear that the courts are going to knock down these types of initiatives. I'm not saying I endorse that, but anyone paying attention can see that is clearly where the Supreme Court is headed.
You would think the administrators at ETHS and 65 would be smart enough to understand that and develop appropriate ways to deal with that reality and still accomplish equity goals.
It is really not that hard. They just need to get their heads out from under the stifling identity politics clouds that seem to be the only way they understand the world.
This is why private schools exist. Period. There may be some good results that happen with segregating by race, gender, etc. but the law is pretty clear and Evanston taxpayers should not be footing the bill for illegal experiments. It feels like they are desperate for equity gains - the results have been pretty terrible. What does it say about their jobs if they are have been literally tearing down the system for all students to help a portion and it hasn't worked.
I don't know, the law seems pretty not clear to me. But I do believe this is more for administrator resume development than it is for the students.
Why not. It got Horton a job that will more than double his salary? With only bad results.
Regarding private school I will say last week I was doing some research and a lot of studies seem to now say the private school is not more effective than public school just making a comment
My comment wasn't about effectiveness of private vs. public school it was about the law.
Frankly, what is disturbing to me is that ETHS is allowing anyone with a C in precalc to move up to AP.
No kidding, I couldn't take AP classes in high school unless I excelled at the non-AP classes. Hell would've frozen over before they'd allow a C student to take an AP class and just bomb the exam.
Yes, it makes them look bad to College Board. Plus my mom would have been mad she paid for the class and test for nothing!
There's research - from the College Board no less - that taking AP classes and tests have broad benefits for kids, regardless of the score on the test.
https://research.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/new-analyses-ap-scores-1-and-2.pdf
But which way is the causation? Do college kids who took AP do better in college *because* they took the AP or because they are more motivated or well-funded, in general?
Good question. The Center for American Progress has a great AP and Race report that addresses that very thing. Here's a quote: "The results
showed that regardless of ethnicity, gender, class rank, or SAT score, students with AP credits earned higher first-semester college grade point averages (GPAs) than their counterparts with similar high school academic characteristics but no AP credit."
Note credits, not score of 3+ or whatever.
Page 8 of this report: https://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/07/AdvancedCoursework-report1.pdf
Sure, I believe that. But you don’t get the credit unless you do well enough on the exam. AP classes are about earning college credit in high school. Without the credit, you just took an expensive honors plus class. I contend that having a junior college system that allowed kids to dual enroll so they can earn Gen Ed credits while in high school would be even more beneficial. As it stands, ETHS doesn’t offer enough summer school classes where students can expedite getting enough credits to graduate. At a certain level- it is all makeup classes. I work with a recent college grad from Ohio who got her first year done while in high school. She finished her AA and transferred to a 4 year and did it for less than half the cost, in 1/4 less time. That’s the kind of thinking we should be doing in Evanston, where a good percentage of kids go to college, but end up with no degree. It shouldn’t all be AP focused.
Does this kind of negate your whole Demar verse D 65 post? Does it matter if it’s against the law or not? it’s CRT it is illegal its unconstitutional and it’s wrong. but I don’t think Democrats or anyone in evanston can even admit that probably all white people‘s fault
Yes it does matter if its against the law. I thought you were going to quit commenting here
Am I not welcome ? So inclusive and tolerant of all people and views. Sorry I’ll go away I guess. Delete my comment where I called you a legend and all others. You seem to think I’ve made more comments than I have.
As an advocate for people with physical and cognitive disabilities I think segregation of any kind is wrong and what happens when some crazy white administrators or school staff want white only classes. Or any other unintended consequences from this. in America discrimination is a illegal a black only or a class based on race or sexual orientation criteria limiting others is discrimination. most normal Americans stick up against injustices even if it comes from their own political party. Scratch that pre-Covid that’s what America was like
Dude please stop making fake accounts. This is getting out of control. I've asked you to stop so many times
So no one is creating any fake accounts. Just like at round table or Evanston now you can just type in a random name and a random email and it lets you post. That’s sub stacks, round table verifies every email is legit with confirmation email for example or you can’t post. please delete all ‘fake account’ comment posts and I will not comment anymore once that is complete as clearly not welcome here. thanks all the best I think this is a great site. communication does not always come through via text properly sorry it didn’t work out but you need to delete the comment on the previous post and all the other ones now and I will try my best to not comment under the format that substack allows. For example for this post the email was; heresarandomemail@ supersuper.com and it let me post
Gee insert the {well that escalated quickly} meme. CRT went from its not being taught in our schools, it’s all right wing propaganda, to just flat out black only classes
Also unclear what happens with a mixed race student.
So what happens to your analysis (assuming Brown is still in effect) in 2042 when every racial group is a minority?
Yeah I think my point is that there's no clarity in any of the laws here which means everything is just political soup
Dewey for example is 42% white. Is that a minority ?
Tom --this may be a helpful read from what is an official legal journal: https://cookcountyrecord.com/stories/641967839-evanston-hs-rewrites-racially-restricted-ap-math-course-descriptions-after-hit-with-civil-rights-complaint
This is very interesting, thank you for sharing this.
This guy's email cracks me up. I like confident bold writing styles like this.
“I speak with some authority as someone who has filed more Title VI and Title IX complaints than any individual in the history of US civil rights enforcement when I suggest that your race-based and sex-based discrimination is legally indefensible and I fully expect the Chicago OCR to rule in my favor, as they have more than 300 times before for violations similar or identical to ETHA’s (sic) sex-based and race-based discrimination”
To be clear, I haven’t looked closely at the political slant of the pub...but I do think the write up is clear and sets out the facts fairly well....
I think he's basically right when he says this:
“The mindset is often ‘We’ll just violate the civil rights of certain un-preferred student groups (whites, Asians, males) unlawfully in the pursuit of social/racial/gender justice for preferred groups (BIPOCs) and we can do some good until/if we get caught and are forced to follow the law.”
I get the impression that a lot of education folks these days are just throwing stuff out there and seeing what sticks and what doesn't stick.
Agreed! ETHS is in quite a bind, it seems. They get a lot of kids entering in 9th grade that are not high school ready --not even close. And what’s coming their way may be even worse in that regard than they can even imagine (given all you’ve written about and more in d65). At the same time, ETHS is out there touting itself as a leader in AP Curriculum and is recognized as increasing BIPOC AP participation in significant ways. And at the same time per a recent Daily Northwestern article 77% of the white student body is taking an AP class and for Black students it’s 20-22% and for Latino it’s 38%. Not great. And, finally, at the same time we’re hearing more and more about grade inflation being at an all time high and rigor being at an all time low at ETHS. So, what’s a school to do if they see all of this; the proverbial writing on the wall? Time to throw spaghetti and see what sticks?
One more note: Title IV & Title IX of the Civil Rights Acts are the focus here and it’s important to state that while intentions may be good in terms of “why” this was/is being done (I believe that many at ETHS want to desperately help BIPOC students and feel great urgency bc nothing they seem to be doing seems to be working in any significant way), there is no “good intentions exception” to the Civil Rights Act. Period, end of story.